Ultimate Business Growth with Jim Oneschuk | DFS 293

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:02

Welcome to destined for success. I'm your

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:04

host Jennifer Takagi and today is PATA palooza. De. I'm so

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:09

excited. I've met so many killer people that I would not have

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:13

been able to talk to you otherwise. And I have another

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:17

guests that will give us even more insights. I have John up,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:21

Jim, I'm gonna get this right on his check. Did I get it close?

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:25

Oh, perfect. And he's in Toronto I honeymooned in Toronto. So now

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:30

we're almost related. I think we must be cousins. I think we must

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:35

be identifying.

Jim Oneschuk: 00:00:37

Thank you so much for having me on your show. And

Jim Oneschuk: 00:00:40

I look forward to our conversation.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:42

Right, so the podcast is destined for success.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:46

So why don't you share with us your success journey, and how

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:51

you help others companies, individuals reach their level of

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:55

success.

Jim Oneschuk: 00:00:58

So I've spent much of my life either working at

Jim Oneschuk: 00:01:02

other companies where we've sold into new markets, or developed

Jim Oneschuk: 00:01:08

new products and brought them to market or I've started companies

Jim Oneschuk: 00:01:12

or worked in smaller companies and worked for the founders. And

Jim Oneschuk: 00:01:17

in those situations, every time success is moving from an early

Jim Oneschuk: 00:01:26

business that is not even bring it breaking even sometimes

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across a chasm, which is a term coined by Geoffrey Moore, who

Jim Oneschuk: 00:01:40

wrote the book Crossing the Chasm. And it's quite a high

Jim Oneschuk: 00:01:46

risk and resource hungry process that requires plan and strength

Jim Oneschuk: 00:01:54

and character to cross the chasm. And success is when you

Jim Oneschuk: 00:02:01

move from those early innovator clients, early adopter clients

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into the mass market where the business is self sustaining,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:02:15

that this is in context where 20% of new businesses failed in

Jim Oneschuk: 00:02:19

the first year 50% fail in the first five years. We all know

Jim Oneschuk: 00:02:26

these statistics, and those that the 7% who actually grow

Jim Oneschuk: 00:02:34

rapidly, which would be defined as larger than 10 people growing

Jim Oneschuk: 00:02:40

at 20% per year, compounded annually for five years, the

Jim Oneschuk: 00:02:46

process where you hit that rate of growth is not random, it is a

Jim Oneschuk: 00:02:52

hardcore plan to find success in that type of growth.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:02:59

Wow. And I'm kind of a little bit mind blown

Jennifer Takagi: 00:03:05

by some of these numbers. So how do you get there? How do you

Jennifer Takagi: 00:03:10

cross over that chasm? Or is that your whole business to help

Jennifer Takagi: 00:03:14

people step over that chasm,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:03:16

I I run a course that teaches people to cross the

Jim Oneschuk: 00:03:24

chasm. And I will take on a smaller number of people into

Jim Oneschuk: 00:03:30

more of a mentorship or even one to one clients. But the essence

Jim Oneschuk: 00:03:37

is the idea of a new business is really only worth 10% of that

Jim Oneschuk: 00:03:44

business. And the success is in the other 90% of what you do.

Jim Oneschuk: 00:03:49

And it starts and those aren't my statistics by the way, those

Jim Oneschuk: 00:03:53

are generally accepted. And it starts with not being so

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attached to your own idea of what a new product or new

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:04

service or new market looks like. But be malleable enough to

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:10

mold whatever you're doing to what the customer or the market

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:14

really wants to buy. So Jennifer, what you and I might

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:18

think is a good idea in a new in. In role growing a business

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:24

really means nothing relative to respectfully it really does,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:30

respectfully compared to the what the customer wants. And so

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:37

where you start is you have to survey your target customer base

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:41

and be highly precise in what you mean as a target customer.

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:45

And even within the target customer base, say a specific

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:48

industry like colleges and universities or my focus is

Jim Oneschuk: 00:04:54

business to business situations. So it might be is a mental

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:05

health online tools company that's selling to those colleges

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:11

and universities. But the essence is you have to go out

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:16

and survey the colleges and universities and find out what

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:19

they want to buy. It doesn't matter whether you have a good

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:22

idea, or I have a good idea. And there is a very precise way of,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:28

of selling. And I can, I can guarantee you that whatever we

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think is a good idea will be tweaked by asking the client,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:38

what's keeping them up at night? And what would they think is an

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:41

ideal product and service? And going further and asking them,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:46

you know, if, if you gave them what they asked for, how much

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:50

would they pay for it? You know, and I can't Can I call you back

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:55

in three or six months, if in fact, I'm going to deliver

Jim Oneschuk: 00:05:58

something close to what you want. But all you so we can find

Jim Oneschuk: 00:06:02

out this information just by talking with with the right

Jim Oneschuk: 00:06:05

people. But it requires a lot more, you know, it'll take two

Jim Oneschuk: 00:06:11

to three years to cross the chasm. How are you going to pay

Jim Oneschuk: 00:06:13

the bills for that time? Do you have enough life savings? Do you

Jim Oneschuk: 00:06:19

have potential family and friends who might be investors?

Jim Oneschuk: 00:06:24

No, there's so many issues that can cause that 20% failure in

Jim Oneschuk: 00:06:29

the first year and 50% over five years, that it really requires a

Jim Oneschuk: 00:06:33

lot of thinking. So I'm

Jennifer Takagi: 00:06:37

I keep smiling and chuckling and for those of

Jennifer Takagi: 00:06:40

you listening to audio, you might have heard me making

Jennifer Takagi: 00:06:42

sounds in the background. But for those who sit on video, when

Jennifer Takagi: 00:06:45

I ever put the video up, I got my first client base. And I

Jennifer Takagi: 00:06:50

really wanted to work with renew managers, because I felt as a

Jennifer Takagi: 00:06:54

new manager, I was kind of thrown into the deep end of the

Jennifer Takagi: 00:06:58

pool and it didn't know how to swim. And I paid to go to

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:02

training on my own. And I would work out deals with my boss so

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:07

that she would let me off work. And then I would pay for my own

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:12

travel my own fees to get in to get a trainee so I could do

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:17

better, no better, you know, be the best manager when the time

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:21

came. And I just knew that other people would want that. And

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:26

guess what they do want it but they want the company to pay.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:30

But then the companies all say we have our own people to train

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:33

that. And so I'm gonna say anybody listening to this

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:37

podcast, and you're the one who's broken the code to get

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:41

into corporations to train their people on leadership development

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:46

and personal growth type things. My hat's off to you because I

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:51

was not successful at breaking into that group. And I think

Jennifer Takagi: 00:07:55

there are really a small number of trainers who are successful

Jennifer Takagi: 00:08:00

at actually breaking into that. So I'm chuckling giggling and

Jennifer Takagi: 00:08:04

also kicking myself in the pants for Yeah, this would have been

Jennifer Takagi: 00:08:07

great information.

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:09

There are so many little trade secrets and and the

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:14

secret sauce in what we talk about, that you don't learn in

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:19

business school. And you don't even learn through many formal

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:22

corporate training. I've been through the formal training in

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:27

many areas of companies like IBM and Oracle Corporation and Ford

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:32

Motor Company and, and PricewaterhouseCoopers. And the

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:37

types of things that we're talking about here, they don't

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:40

teach there. So for example, in your training business, in

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:47

launching a new business, it's generally accepted in most

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:51

markets that it's around 3% of the buyers are willing to take a

Jim Oneschuk: 00:08:57

chance on a new product or service. And so you need to find

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:02

that category of what are called innovator buyers. And they're

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:08

extremely demanding, and they are in successful, high growth

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:12

businesses. They are usually friends of the family people

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:16

that the entrepreneur knows extremely well from previous

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:19

business situations or from their network. And that that

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:26

innovator buyer trusts the person so that if you're

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:30

starting a business, say in training to corporations, you

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:35

have to find someone that you know, who's willing to take a

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:38

chance on your training more than just because you've got a

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:41

good idea, right? If you look at all the successful high growth

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:45

companies, they started this way. Almost all of them, but

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:52

then, once you've sold to that early adopter type, sorry, that

Jim Oneschuk: 00:09:58

innovator type by buyer, then there are other types of buyers,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:03

one called the early adopters the next phase, and that's about

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:06

8% of the market. And they won't buy the the first client, but

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:09

there'll be an early on client, and they have other buying

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:12

criteria. And most of the market 33% of the market is made up by

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:19

what are called Early Majority buyers. And those buyers need

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:25

strong references, good case studies, good documentation, all

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:30

the things that you don't have when you're a smaller business,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:33

right. So you can't can't waste your time trying to sell to

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:36

those people who are early majority. And then there's the

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:41

late majority. And then there's the laggards that you sell to

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:44

differently. But the point of all of this is to be successful,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:49

you've got to cross the chasm and sell to that innovator buyer

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:54

differently than the early adopter. And hopefully, you can

Jim Oneschuk: 00:10:59

cross the chasm to where the early majority buyer can be well

Jim Oneschuk: 00:11:03

served. And that's I love the business development aspect of

Jim Oneschuk: 00:11:07

what we're talking about. And this is what I love to teach and

Jim Oneschuk: 00:11:12

talk with my clients about.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:14

Well, and I I'll just say I ended up getting

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:17

into the Whoo, energy healing energy side of things and kind

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:20

of turned my back on the other, I'm still willing to do it. But

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:25

that's not where I'm gonna put my effort. And the ones who call

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:29

me initially, just out of the clear blue, my phone rang, hey,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:33

will you come do a training on this? I was like, yes. Do you

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:37

mind Slater, I get another call like that. I'm just saying, Jim,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:41

I thought that was going to be the rest of my life that my

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:43

phone was just ringing. Imagine my dismay when it didn't.

Jim Oneschuk: 00:11:50

Well, then you get into more traditional lead

Jim Oneschuk: 00:11:55

generation and, and tracking and closing a business. But you do

Jim Oneschuk: 00:12:03

that with these different types of clients differently depending

Jim Oneschuk: 00:12:06

on the phase of growth you're in.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:12:09

I love it. I wish I had known this sooner,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:12:12

but it's not too late. So I made a pivot in my visit business

Jennifer Takagi: 00:12:18

just over two years ago. I'm still in the gaining clients, I

Jennifer Takagi: 00:12:24

work with people, mostly one on one, but a lot of the work I do

Jennifer Takagi: 00:12:27

I still could take into a larger group into a company or

Jennifer Takagi: 00:12:31

something like that. So do you have any ideas on what an

Jennifer Takagi: 00:12:35

entrepreneur can do to step into this, you have something that we

Jennifer Takagi: 00:12:39

might be missing that we didn't even consider looking at,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:12:42

besides investigating our market a lot better?

Jim Oneschuk: 00:12:47

Right? Well, so the first point in that I've

Jim Oneschuk: 00:12:51

made is to find those early innovator clients who are

Jim Oneschuk: 00:12:57

personal relationships and over a cheese being with them. So you

Jim Oneschuk: 00:13:00

end up with some solid references, right? But they're

Jim Oneschuk: 00:13:05

depending on what the product or service might be. Even if it's

Jim Oneschuk: 00:13:12

say a hard work product, to develop online videos and

Jim Oneschuk: 00:13:21

striking up real education based selling where people value your

Jim Oneschuk: 00:13:29

education, that you inform them about this product segment, or

Jim Oneschuk: 00:13:36

not just what your product does, but how it helps their business,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:13:39

those that are how generally what you're doing might lead to

Jim Oneschuk: 00:13:46

other things, helping their business, putting it in the

Jim Oneschuk: 00:13:49

client's terms. And you could even say have an online course

Jim Oneschuk: 00:13:55

where the client pays tuition in order to attend the the course

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:02

to, you know, learn how to do the training that you're doing.

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:08

As an as an example, in your business, right? Where so you

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:12

end up running a course rather than actually delivering the

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:16

training. And through running the course that's people might

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:20

pay tuition to that you might, you might through that then find

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:26

leads to people who want to join group coaching for a year,

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:32

rather than actually buying your hardcore training service. And

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:36

then some of that group might eventually become your hardcore

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:40

training clients, but there's a bit of a roadmap. So there's

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:44

lots of things like that, that you can do that generate revenue

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:49

in the short term and help you refine your product or service

Jim Oneschuk: 00:14:53

along the way.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:54

I love that I had a business coach that

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:59

recommended But I, I write a course and record it. And I did.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:05

And then nobody bought it for a number of reasons. And COVID

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:09

hit. And I had done training for the great state of Oklahoma in

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:14

person. And I got a call from my contact, and she said, Do you

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:19

have anything online, we can put in our portal? And I said, I do.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:26

And so something that I had created, like two years

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:29

previously, or three years, they ended up paying a licensing fee

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:34

for six months to put it out on their portal for their

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:37

employees. And I ended up sharing two different training

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:41

things that I already done. So same kind of thing, then right,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:46

you know, put together the stuff that you already have that's

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:48

easily accessible. Absolutely.

Jim Oneschuk: 00:15:50

And lots of what you have, can you be converted

Jim Oneschuk: 00:15:53

into checklists and, you know, short summaries that you can

Jim Oneschuk: 00:15:58

give away piecemeal as free offers to get them to come and

Jim Oneschuk: 00:16:02

take your course, I would, I would never try and sell a

Jim Oneschuk: 00:16:06

recorded course. No, I'm, I would be more tempted to give

Jim Oneschuk: 00:16:11

people access to the recordings, for free, wanting to entice them

Jim Oneschuk: 00:16:17

to take the course. And just make sure that the course is so

Jim Oneschuk: 00:16:21

overwhelmingly full of content that exceeds people who might

Jim Oneschuk: 00:16:26

try to listen to the course, their expectations, and makes

Jim Oneschuk: 00:16:30

them realize that they they're not going to get through this

Jim Oneschuk: 00:16:34

without you and then register for your course.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:39

I love that. I'm taking notes. won't get it

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:45

without me. That's really helpful. Awesome. So if someone

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:50

wanted to reach out to you and find out how you can help them

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:52

strategically, position themselves to cross that chasm

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:56

quickly and easily. How would we do that? How would we get ahold

Jennifer Takagi: 00:17:00

of you?

Jim Oneschuk: 00:17:01

Well, through you possibly, or more directly

Jim Oneschuk: 00:17:06

through my website, which is ultimate, B gr.com. That stands

Jim Oneschuk: 00:17:11

for ultimate business growth. That's the ultimate G, the

Jim Oneschuk: 00:17:16

letter G and then br.com. Or you'll find my mobile app on the

Jim Oneschuk: 00:17:23

Google Play or Apple Store under that same name, ultimate

Jim Oneschuk: 00:17:27

business growth or my name.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:17:36

Thanks, Jim. Jennifer, it's

Jim Oneschuk: 00:17:38

such a pleasure to talk with you. I hope we can

Jim Oneschuk: 00:17:40

talk again.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:17:41

It's been a pleasure. I'm Jennifer to Kagi

Jennifer Takagi: 00:17:44

and I look forward to connecting with you soon.