How One Woman's Intuition Led Her to Empathy, EQ and Evolution of Leadership | DFS 334

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:00

I love it. Welcome to Destin for success.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:04

I'm your host, Jennifer Takagi, and today we have another

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:06

amazing guest. We have Tabitha Jones, and today she's going to

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:11

talk about promotion ready, proven strategies for career

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:14

success, and her new book that's out, promotion ready in three

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:19

months, the Women's Guide to career advancement. Tabitha,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:24

thanks for being on the show.

Tabatha Jones: 00:00:26

Thank you for having me. Jennifer, I am so

Tabatha Jones: 00:00:28

excited to talk to you and your audience today.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:31

Ah, me too. So how did you get into this? Did

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:35

you come from corporate, I'm assuming, and then step into

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:39

this new role? Because promotion ready that would have like, this

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:44

would have been like manna from heaven, words I was dying to

Jennifer Takagi: 00:00:47

hear,

Tabatha Jones: 00:00:49

right? Oh my gosh, yes. I came from

Tabatha Jones: 00:00:51

corporate. I spent a really long time there, but more than 20

Tabatha Jones: 00:00:54

years of my career, I was climbing the ladder. And I tell

Tabatha Jones: 00:00:58

you, if there was a promotion readiness fairy, I could have

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:01

used her at any point in my career. So I thought, You know

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:04

what? Think I'm going to become that person. And so a little bit

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:09

just about my background in corporate, and where this came

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:13

in is I had been promoted to a project manager role, and I

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:19

stayed in that role for 10 years, I had a project manager

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:22

title. I was leading three teams of people. I was leading major

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:28

projects, including one of the largest billing system

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:31

conversions, which is a bagel coding project in the history of

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:34

the company and the vendor. I was doing all kinds of things

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:40

and working on my degree, thinking that I just need to be

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:43

a little more perfect, and then somebody's going to notice and

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:46

they're going to magically promote me stories we tell

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:49

ourselves, right? She's coming. It's going to happen. My boss is

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:52

just going to be like, hey, Tabitha, we've got this great

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:54

thing for you. And believe it or not, it didn't happen that way,

Tabatha Jones: 00:01:59

so it's so, it's so. About 10 years in, we went through a

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:08

reorg. And during that reorg, if you've ever been familiarized

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:12

with the telecom tech industry, there are a lot of reorgs. I had

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:15

been through a lot, but this one, I had to reapply for my

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:19

job. And what I did is I looked at all the job postings that

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:24

were out there and realized I was already doing more than the

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:28

next level up required. And I said, Well, what are we doing

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:33

here? So I applied for it, and I went to the interview, and I did

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:40

great, because I got offered the promotion to manager billing

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:44

systems manager, and I was offered a whopping 4% pay

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:50

increase with that change, and that was the day. I said, Hell

Tabatha Jones: 00:02:56

no, I'm done with this. This is not happening. I said, Thank

Tabatha Jones: 00:03:00

you, but no, thank you. And I walked

Tabatha Jones: 00:03:02

out. Okay, then go ahead.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:03:08

I've had this conversation with a girlfriend

Jennifer Takagi: 00:03:10

of mine multiple times. How if there are 10 quality ranking

Jennifer Takagi: 00:03:15

factors for a job position like you need these 10 things to

Jennifer Takagi: 00:03:18

apply? If a man has two, maybe three, they'll go, oh, yeah, I

Jennifer Takagi: 00:03:23

can do that job and apply. And women look at it and say, Oh, I

Jennifer Takagi: 00:03:28

only have eight of those. I can't apply. Is that part of

Jennifer Takagi: 00:03:33

this culture?

Tabatha Jones: 00:03:36

It's very much a part of the corporate culture.

Tabatha Jones: 00:03:39

It is most of the women I work with are Gen X, so that 45 to

Tabatha Jones: 00:03:43

early 60s, kind of age range it, I think, was beaten into us at a

Tabatha Jones: 00:03:48

young age, that you've got to be perfect. You can't put yourself

Tabatha Jones: 00:03:51

out there, you can't make a mistake, you can't you don't

Tabatha Jones: 00:03:53

want to look stupid. So make sure you meet all those

Tabatha Jones: 00:03:56

requirements, and you're absolutely right. I think the

Tabatha Jones: 00:03:59

statistic is that men will apply if they have 40 to 60% of the

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:04

qualifications. Women will wait until they're 100% qualified.

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:08

Yes, and that's kind of where I was heading, right? It just

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:11

didn't. Eventually I'll have everything I need to get

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:15

promoted

Jennifer Takagi: 00:04:16

well, and so job 10 years because you didn't

Jennifer Takagi: 00:04:19

have 10 things right to apply for the next promotion

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:24

Exactly. Oh, I just need a degree. Oh, I need

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:26

experience and leadership. Oh, I need to do this. And just kept

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:31

working so hard. And what happened when I turned the job

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:35

down is within less than a half an hour, it was probably 1520

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:39

minutes, I was called into the CFOs office, and she sat me down

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:44

and said, Well, we were really expecting you to accept that

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:48

offer. We don't have anyone else as qualified as you for this

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:51

position. Here are the reasons why. So she starts telling me

Tabatha Jones: 00:04:57

all of the reasons I'm valuable, which I. Was a great light bulb

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:00

moment. And she said her exact words were, what will it take to

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:05

make this offer palatable? We want you in the role. And I,

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:10

having never negotiated for anything in my life, said I

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:13

would like a senior manager title, because I'm already doing

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:17

more than the job requires, and I would like a 15% pay increase.

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:22

And she smiled and said, I assume you mean on top of the 4%

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:25

we've already offered. And I said, Absolutely no. And

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:29

hindsight, right? It was like, no, yes, hindsight, I wish I'd

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:34

asked for more, because her answer came back really fast. So

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:38

there definitely was some knowledge and wiggle room in

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:42

there, I could have negotiated better, but what I learned from

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:46

that is that there is strategy to promotions. It's not hiding

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:51

behind your desk and working your butt off every single day

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:53

and hoping to God somebody notices and magically promotes

Tabatha Jones: 00:05:56

you. That happens, but it's pretty rare. It's more about

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:01

taking really proactive and strategic actions. Part of that

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:06

comes with knowing who you are, understanding your unique value

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:10

to the organization, and part of it has to do with getting

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:15

uncomfortable. You're comfortable doing the work

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:18

you're familiar with, maybe not so comfortable putting yourself

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:21

into a room full of people and speaking on a topic that is

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:26

maybe not your strongest, strongest strength. So it

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:31

there's definitely some strategy to getting yourself positioned

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:34

and and pushing for what you want.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:06:37

So did you at what point did you leave

Jennifer Takagi: 00:06:41

corporate like so you got your senior position with your 19%

Jennifer Takagi: 00:06:45

pay increase? I did

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:47

well, I stayed a little longer. So what happened

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:51

from there is I realized all the light bulbs, all the strategy,

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:54

all the things I should have, would have, could have been

Tabatha Jones: 00:06:56

doing, I started doing them, and that led to it was a total of

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:00

four promotions over the next 10 years. So I had promoted into

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:04

that senior billing manager role. We then went through

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:07

another re org, and I negotiated for a promotion to a director

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:12

role over part of our West Division team. And that one was

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:16

interesting, because I wasn't initially given an opportunity

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:20

to interview. But as I was hearing from others who were

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:24

already directors, who were already interviewing, I thought,

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:28

You know what? Today's the day. So I reached out to the hiring

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:31

manager and asked for a conversation. And during that

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:35

conversation, which she obviously accepted, I shared my

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:39

unique value. I shared with her my accomplishments and my

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:42

success. As women, we forget that our HR record doesn't house

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:49

all of that information. My HR record showed I had been a

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:53

project manager for 10 years, a senior billing systems manager

Tabatha Jones: 00:07:57

for 10 months, and she can't possibly be ready for a

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:01

director. She hasn't even been a senior manager for 10 years. You

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:04

know, not sorry, not 10 years, not even a full year. But when I

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:08

spoke to the hiring manager, I said, what you don't know about

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:11

me is I already was doing the work of a senior manager. So

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:16

though, on paper, it's been 10 months, in reality, it's been

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:19

more than five or six years, and as we had that great

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:23

conversation, she was really wonderful. She said, there's

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:26

absolutely a spot for you on the team. We see you in a senior

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:29

manager role. And I just said, Listen, I've done that. I am

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:33

either moving up, I am moving over to a different department

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:36

to get more experience, or I'm moving out of this company, but

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:39

I'm not planning to apply for a senior manager role. So a few

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:43

short days later, I found myself on an airplane headed to Denver

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:47

where I interviewed with seven vice presidents for the job that

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:50

I landed, which was that director role. Then through

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:55

working hard and doing a lot of really cool things with my team,

Tabatha Jones: 00:08:58

having great employee culture survey scores and other fabulous

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:03

results that I could talk about all day, but I'm sure you all

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:05

don't care. I was promoted to senior director, and then my

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:10

last role was yet another reorg, and my team was going from a

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:14

Division team into a corporate team, so going from leading

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:18

seven states of employees to 40 some odd states, staying based

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:24

in California. Thankfully, the expectation was that I would

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:28

just come over with my title as is and my pay as is, and they

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:32

would just work it out later. And so bless their hearts, maybe

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:37

let's not do that. So taking my strategies once again, I reached

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:43

out to the head of the department, who happened to be

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:45

the controller of the company, and asked for some time, and

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:49

then had a very candid conversation, bringing in my

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:53

successes and accomplishments, bringing in why I deserved a

Tabatha Jones: 00:09:57

promotion and a pay increase. Comparing the titles of other

Tabatha Jones: 00:10:02

people who were coming into similar roles with the title

Tabatha Jones: 00:10:05

that I had, and that turned into a promotion to executive

Tabatha Jones: 00:10:10

director with an additional pay increase. And the best part of

Tabatha Jones: 00:10:14

that is not only did it get me what I wanted, but it also

Tabatha Jones: 00:10:19

brought up other women who are in senior director and director

Tabatha Jones: 00:10:23

roles, because you can't change one. You gotta change them all.

Tabatha Jones: 00:10:26

And so it worked out for others. It really opened the door and

Tabatha Jones: 00:10:30

getting in there and advocating.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:10:33

I think that the one thing that I would have

Jennifer Takagi: 00:10:36

been very hesitant, slash fearful of just because I had

Jennifer Takagi: 00:10:41

never done it would be that courageous piece of but this is

Jennifer Takagi: 00:10:48

what I bring to the party, and this is why you should care. So

Jennifer Takagi: 00:10:53

I don't want to derail the conversation if this is too

Jennifer Takagi: 00:10:55

early to bring it up, but I'm very curious if in your current

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:00

business, if that's something you work with your clients, on,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:11:04

is having the courage to have the conversation? Yes,

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:10

absolutely, that is a great question. And what is

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:14

so important is we're so afraid women will play small and stay

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:18

quiet and try to make everybody like them. We're so worried

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:22

about it a man, isn't I write. I love this book. It's called

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:26

Brave, not perfect, and it talks about how men are not afraid of

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:30

making mistakes, but women were like, oh gosh, we gotta make

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:33

sure we don't make that mistake. And so it holds us back. It

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:37

makes us not feel like we can talk about our accomplishments.

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:41

And the question I'm asked most often is, but doesn't that sound

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:47

cocky? So I'll work with women and get them to talk about their

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:50

accomplishments, have them practice saying it and then, but

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:53

doesn't that sound cocky? Like my friend? I can assure you that

Tabatha Jones: 00:11:59

Joseph down the hall. Doesn't even think about asking that

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:04

question. He's out talking about it. In fact, he might even be

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:07

taking credit for the work you just did with him, because

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:10

you're not in the room presenting your piece of the

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:12

work and sharing your value. And it's really amazing to work with

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:18

women, some of them in their job search. I'm going to use that as

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:21

a great example, because I hear a lot of well, I'm not really

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:25

sure what I do. I can tell you what my team does, but I'm not

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:29

really sure what I do. And once we flush it out, and I get it

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:33

written into this really beautiful professional summary,

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:36

sometimes I'll ask that woman to close her eyes while I read her

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:40

professional summary to her. And we start with the shoulders up

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:43

high and the oh my gosh, what's going to come out? And then

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:46

pretty soon you see the relaxed face and the smile and the

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:49

shoulders coming down, and the Oh my gosh. That's me. Yeah,

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:54

that's you. You just forgot. You forget to take credit for

Tabatha Jones: 00:12:57

things. You forget how amazing you are. And as women, most of

Tabatha Jones: 00:13:03

us are list checker offers. Just get the list done right, do all

Tabatha Jones: 00:13:07

the things we don't stop and think about the impact of the

Tabatha Jones: 00:13:11

work that we've done. What was the benefit to the business? How

Tabatha Jones: 00:13:14

did you improve? Maybe an employee help an employee

Tabatha Jones: 00:13:17

improve their performance? How did you you know, whatever it

Tabatha Jones: 00:13:21

is, what does that one little thing that you did, that you

Tabatha Jones: 00:13:26

just checked the box and moved on, how did that play out?

Tabatha Jones: 00:13:29

What's the big picture? And so I love reflection time, taking

Tabatha Jones: 00:13:33

time to think about that stuff

Jennifer Takagi: 00:13:35

as an entrepreneur. And a lot of the

Jennifer Takagi: 00:13:38

listeners of this podcast are entrepreneurs, but one of the

Jennifer Takagi: 00:13:44

hardest lessons for me, because I have gone into corporations

Jennifer Takagi: 00:13:48

and government agencies and conferences and done breakout

Jennifer Takagi: 00:13:52

sessions and training sessions, is how much value to put On my

Jennifer Takagi: 00:13:59

time for doing the work, and it's like, oh, wait, but, but,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:04

but. And very early on, I I was advised, I guess I will say,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:12

that if you go in and you do a training for 10 of the top

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:18

managers of that corporation, and you transform them into

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:23

being better leaders, that is going to have a ripple effect

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:28

and impact throughout the whole organization. So you're not just

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:33

getting paid so many dollars an hour. You're paying for the

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:37

impact, and that impact comes with all of the experience that

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:41

you have to have these conversations. And I think the

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:45

last corporate thing that actually was a government entity

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:51

that I applied for and I sent down my, you know, he said, Send

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:55

me your proposal. And I sent the proposal, and I was to include

Jennifer Takagi: 00:14:59

my travel. All. And he said, but you can fly on Southwest

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:05

Airlines for $49 and I said, but I'm not going to. And he said, I

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:12

can't believe you're going to charge $100 a person on top of

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:15

your fee. And I said, I've got to pay for the assessments. And

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:21

in the end, I didn't get the job. I didn't do it, but I

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:26

decided the money really wasn't worth it, if he wasn't going to

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:31

value what I was bringing to the party. I had years of government

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:35

experience. I didn't know their agency, but they're not that

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:38

different, right? There's all kinds of bureaucracy and red

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:41

tape involved, and you've gotta step up and be the best leader

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:44

you can be. So I don't know what they ever ended up doing for

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:49

that, but like, he wanted me to get up at four in the morning

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:51

and fly on Southwest Airlines to try to get there and go straight

Jennifer Takagi: 00:15:56

in and train his team all day. And I was like, Nah,

Tabatha Jones: 00:15:59

yeah, no, thank you. I'm with you, and you don't

Tabatha Jones: 00:16:02

want me in a room if I've been up traveling since 4am because

Tabatha Jones: 00:16:05

it's not going to go well for anybody.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:07

No, I'm a sleeper. Four comes once a day,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:10

and that's a pm for me, right?

Tabatha Jones: 00:16:12

Agree? Oh my gosh, so good. And it's true.

Tabatha Jones: 00:16:16

You know,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:16

you've got you gotta take credit for the impact

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:19

you make, because you, you feel like you're just impacting this

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:23

little team, but this quote, little team, that's like an air

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:25

quote thing that little team is, is creating a huge impact on the

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:31

company at large, right? Whichever piece it is, they're

Jennifer Takagi: 00:16:34

there for a really phenomenal reason. So, yeah,

Tabatha Jones: 00:16:38

absolutely. And you know it's so as a as an

Tabatha Jones: 00:16:42

owner of my own business now too, it is easy to kind of go,

Tabatha Jones: 00:16:46

Well, wait what? When somebody now says, well, we seem kind of

Tabatha Jones: 00:16:51

expensive. And like, Well, okay, let's back it up a little bit. I

Tabatha Jones: 00:16:55

mean, I've had clients. I would say one of the lower ROI is

Tabatha Jones: 00:16:58

about $15,000 higher end is well over $100,000 you know,

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:03

depending on their journey. Is it a job search? Is it

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:05

leadership growth? Is it, you know, recently, I've talked to a

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:08

couple of entrepreneurs and getting their businesses

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:11

straightened out. And, you know, stop following the shiny things,

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:14

getting them on track with the things that actually will build

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:17

their business. So you're absolutely right, that value can

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:20

be questioned. And if you're not strong in your value and knowing

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:23

your own worth, it's a lot easier for people to challenge

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:27

it. Yeah,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:17:28

yeah, oh my gosh, that's great. Okay, so at

Jennifer Takagi: 00:17:33

what point did you decide to walk away from corporate and

Jennifer Takagi: 00:17:37

help other women, like as your own business, versus in your

Jennifer Takagi: 00:17:41

corporate setting.

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:44

Wow. So I'm going to take you back to 2018 I was

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:47

sitting in this conference. It was a leadership but when

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:50

leading with power and authenticity conference, and I

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:53

kept hearing this little voice in the back of my head with, why

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:55

aren't you up there leading this? What are you doing? And I

Tabatha Jones: 00:17:59

went through all the imposter syndrome stuff, right? Well, you

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:03

don't have a master's degree. They've been doing this

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:05

internationally. They've done blah blah and so all the

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:08

comparison that comes with imposter syndrome. And I came

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:11

back and I couldn't shake that feeling, so I decided, You know

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:15

what, I'll hire a business coach. I'll start on the side.

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:17

I'll go through the legalities with my company make sure

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:19

everything's good whatever. I loved coaching in my business or

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:24

in my career, the paperwork, the data, not so much, which was

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:28

weird. I led technical teams, but no. Thanks anyway. So back

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:31

to that. So then I did it for a couple of years. And as you may

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:36

know, and many of your listeners probably know, it's hard to do

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:39

both. It's hard to focus on both. And so we got to 2019 and

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:47

I told my husband, I think I'm putting my job next year. And he

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:52

thought I was insane. And I said, Now I'm pretty sure I'm

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:55

leaving my job next year. So I went, got through it, kept

Tabatha Jones: 00:18:58

working. The reorganization happened at the end of 2019

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:02

early 2020 we all know where we went in March of 2020 and I

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:06

went, Wow, we're going to back up a little bit. We're going to

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:08

stick around just a little longer. But this pandemic, you

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:11

know, these couple days of lockdown blow over and get my

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:14

team settled, do the best thing for them. And it was really

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:19

great just building that structure and getting my team

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:22

set for success. I decided later in 2020, it was time. 50, it's

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:30

time if I don't do it now, I'm never going to do it, and then

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:33

I'm going to regret it. And I thought, Okay, I'm going to let

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:36

my husband know in December, hey, when my bonus pays out,

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:39

when my stock options best I'm out. I'll be leaving after q1

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:45

and he did his you know, all husbands do well. Are you sure

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:49

that's what you really want to do? You love your job. You did

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:52

it. And I do love most of my job. I don't love some of my

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:55

job. So yes, I'm absolutely doing this. And then I kind of

Tabatha Jones: 00:19:59

kept giving. Him the little hints of it's coming. And I

Tabatha Jones: 00:20:03

talked to you know, my bestie, and she said, Are you crazy? You

Tabatha Jones: 00:20:06

have a great job. You have this you've got all these benefits.

Tabatha Jones: 00:20:09

I'm doing it. Fast forward to march 21 ish, my stock options

Tabatha Jones: 00:20:16

vested. My bonus was in the bank. I got my boss on the

Tabatha Jones: 00:20:19

phone, on teams, and gave her three weeks notice that April 2

Tabatha Jones: 00:20:24

was officially my last day of work. I watched her visibly

Tabatha Jones: 00:20:27

choke on her water and told her, You know what? The sit I love.

Tabatha Jones: 00:20:32

I've loved my career here, but it's time for my next act, and

Tabatha Jones: 00:20:36

that's how I landed here.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:20:39

I had to say that husband piece cracks me up,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:20:42

because I was given the opportunity I had decided what I

Jennifer Takagi: 00:20:46

wanted to do when I grew up and retired, and I want to be a

Jennifer Takagi: 00:20:50

trainer and a speaker like that's that was going to be my

Jennifer Takagi: 00:20:53

next act. And they called us in and said, we're having a massive

Jennifer Takagi: 00:20:59

reorg. You can either leave or you can relocate. And I was

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:04

like, I'm not leaving and or I'm not relocating. That was my big

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:08

deal. So it took me about three weeks, and I did spreadsheets

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:12

and reduce, you know, pension and this, and would we have

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:16

health insurance? And I can remember so clearly it had been

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:21

about three weeks since the big announcement, and I was brushing

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:24

my teeth, and I walked it through our bedroom, where my

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:28

husband was watching TV in the other room. And I said, hey. And

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:32

he goes, what? And I said, I think you should get used to the

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:35

idea that I am going to actually leave. And he was like, what?

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:39

And I went, Yeah, I know, I yeah, I'm doing it, like I'm

Jennifer Takagi: 00:21:44

doing it. But when you make that decision like it's solid,

Tabatha Jones: 00:21:50

it is there was no going back. And, you know,

Tabatha Jones: 00:21:54

it's, it's funny too, because there were a couple of times in

Tabatha Jones: 00:21:58

the early days of the business, it's, well, maybe I should start

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:01

looking for jobs. Maybe I should. Maybe it would be

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:04

easier, because as an entrepreneur, there's so many

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:07

things, there's so many things in your face, and software and

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:10

ideas and programs, and it just got to that point where I was

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:13

like, Oh my gosh, I need it support. I don't I can't open a

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:16

ticket anymore. Oh my gosh. I know nothing about marketing.

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:19

What am I going to do? It's, it's wild. In fact, I was

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:23

hosting my first zoom webinar, and I had so many technic,

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:26

technical difficulties, and I'm just gonna open a ticket, and

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:30

then I'm like, Oh, I got the ticket. The ticket, you know,

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:33

it's not like corporate at all from that aspect.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:22:36

Yes, my IT person one day, and I was like,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:22:41

I think I did not appreciate you enough. Please just accept my

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:46

right. So good. Oh my gosh. There were so many

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:50

things that were handled, but now getting my hands in

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:53

everything, and knowing how things work, taking the time, I

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:57

would say, it's taken me a couple of years to get where I

Tabatha Jones: 00:22:59

wanted to be and really understanding and figuring

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:02

things out from a business perspective, but the coaching

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:06

piece has always just been it's my favorite. It's so rewarding

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:10

seeing women just pick up that, oh, I remember who the F I am

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:14

right now, and just going forward and getting what they

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:17

want. And that's it's, I don't know. It just warms my heart,

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:21

literally every single day.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:23:23

Oh my gosh, that's awesome. So I don't want

Jennifer Takagi: 00:23:28

to jump ahead unless you're ready to jump ahead, but I'm

Jennifer Takagi: 00:23:30

very interested in your new book. Oh

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:33

well, my new book, I will show you. It's

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:35

promotion ready in three months, the Women's Guide to career

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:39

advancement available on Amazon, and I just had all of this

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:44

strategy in my head. I've shared it with coaching clients and

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:48

thought, You know what, maybe if I can just get women to really

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:53

start thinking about promotions differently. You know, we will

Tabatha Jones: 00:23:57

die at our desk trying to prove ourselves. I did it early in my

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:00

career, I've had people come and talk to me just so frustrated

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:05

with the feedback I keep getting is I need more education. I have

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:10

a friend that she's almost finished her PhD and still

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:14

hasn't achieved the role she wants. It's not that in most

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:18

cases, unless you're a doctor or a lawyer, that's not necessary.

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:22

I have a client who earned her MBA and was disappointed to not

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:26

get a an interview for her next promotion opportunity. She's

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:31

like, I have my MBA. I've worked so hard well, So sir, what were

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:35

you doing at work while you were working on your MBA, to build

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:38

your brand and to get visible and make sure leaders knew you

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:41

and knew your goals. And I've had some really inspiring

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:46

clients, so I've added some of their stories. I've added some

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:49

of my story, and then strategy reflection and some tips and

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:53

tools. It's a pretty action packed book, if I may say so

Tabatha Jones: 00:24:57

myself, considering it's about 200 pages.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:01

Yeah, and I love that I have done training

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:04

for the great state of Oklahoma in the past, which those are

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:07

some of my favorite best days, is doing training. And one of

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:12

the things that we were doing in a leadership class is, what is

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:16

your brand? And I will just say, in my career, I never thought

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:22

about that like that wasn't a thing that was brought up. But

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:25

when I started looking into it as I was prepping to teach this

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:29

class, it was like I was well known, and I was known for what

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:34

I did, and I was consistent, right, and showing up and doing

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:38

the job. So I think that's so important to share that people

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:43

understand that every day they walk in the door, whether it's

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:47

100% online or physically walking the door, doesn't really

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:50

matter how you show up. Is creating that brand every single

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:54

day, whether you're doing it intentionally or not, is a whole

Jennifer Takagi: 00:25:58

nother ball game,

Tabatha Jones: 00:25:59

absolutely, and you have to protect your brand

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:02

at all costs, you know, making sure that you're associated with

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:05

the right people and things you can be you. You just need to

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:10

make sure that it keeps your brand intact. Something

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:13

interesting that happened last week. I had so I worked for

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:16

Comcast for most of my career, and I had done a couple of

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:20

speaking events for them in July and August. And one of the HR

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:26

directors actually reached out to me on LinkedIn, and I had

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:29

never worked with him. His career at Comcast started after

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:32

mine ended, and he just said, Hey, I'd love to get to know

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:35

you. You want to stop by blah, blah, blah. So I did. And one of

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:40

the things he said to me, he said, there are so many times in

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:43

this building that your name has come up. He said, so I know

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:48

people know you. I have heard it from people who have

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:51

successfully interviewed, and when they've been asked why they

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:54

talk about you, your name comes up. We've had people here that

Tabatha Jones: 00:26:58

have worked with you as a coach, and your name comes up past

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:01

projects I see said, I keep hearing your name, so I'm happy

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:05

that we finally got to meet. And that was really important to me

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:09

when I left, is making sure that my brand was intact, so

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:12

maintaining that professionalism. Because I knew

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:15

I wanted to come back in and coach clients in the industry,

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:20

and I knew that if I left with the attitude I might have been

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:23

feeling some days, that wasn't going to serve me right. And

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:27

it's just really important to keep that in mind. And when

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:32

you're in public, and sometimes I may have my book on the table,

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:36

just doing some promoting or or talking to people or taking

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:39

photos, making sure that when they see that book and they see

Tabatha Jones: 00:27:42

my face, I'm representing the right things.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:27:48

I love that so much. I had a situation where I

Jennifer Takagi: 00:27:51

was acting in a position, and then they hired somebody from

Jennifer Takagi: 00:27:56

the outside to come in, and they got the promotion and I didn't.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:00

And of course I was disappointed. Was like, oh, wait

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:02

a minute. Like, everybody just assumed it was mine, and you can

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:07

like, I didn't assume it was mine. And I was right,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:10

obviously, but one of the higher ups called me one day and said,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:16

I just want you to know that we noticed that you've continued to

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:19

do a good job, even though you were passed over for the

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:23

promotion. And I said, well, our culture is that the higher ups

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:29

don't interact with the lower management people, so you would

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:34

have no way of knowing, but I'm pretty sure everybody else in

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:37

the organization could have told you that's how I would be, but

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:41

there was such a divide that she couldn't see that. But it was

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:45

important to me to keep showing up and doing the job like you

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:50

have to have your own level of integrity that you insist on

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:54

maintaining. It wasn't always easy, but some days I did it

Jennifer Takagi: 00:28:59

better than others, but that was, like, always the goal. So

Jennifer Takagi: 00:29:03

that's a that's a really key point, and kudos to you for

Jennifer Takagi: 00:29:08

having maintained that all those years.

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:10

Yeah, absolutely, there was one time when I did

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:13

not get a promotion that I had expected, and hindsight always

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:17

is much more clear, right? It was because a reorg was coming

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:21

and it didn't make sense to put me in the role, because I would

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:24

have been at risk. And when the change was announced, of course,

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:29

with all the secrecy behind it, I was so upset that I actually

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:34

just popped a smile on my face, popped in a vacation request,

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:37

and took a couple days off, like it just wasn't worth being at

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:41

work and maybe accidentally saying something, because I was

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:43

a little bit emotional. And it's okay to have emotions. It's okay

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:47

to do what you've got to do, but don't do it there. Take it home.

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:52

Cry it out, scrape it out, punch it out, whatever you gotta do.

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:56

Not punch it out on any person or animal or anything. But you

Tabatha Jones: 00:29:59

know. A bag, a workout, whatever, let's be clear, but

Tabatha Jones: 00:30:04

it's just not, it doesn't belong in the office. And we don't

Tabatha Jones: 00:30:08

always know what's coming. We don't always know. I had no idea

Tabatha Jones: 00:30:10

there was a reorg coming, right? You have no idea. So things can

Tabatha Jones: 00:30:17

drive changes that you don't expect. Well,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:20

and, and the hard thing is, like in my

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:23

situation, I had trained people across the country for a year

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:27

thinking we were just going to do business better, and, but no,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:31

it was to set up for a reorg, so if everybody knew what the new

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:34

rules were, then they could throw us all together, because

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:37

we all knew what the rules were. And several people. I know there

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:42

were a lot more, but to my face, said you knew about this the

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:46

whole time, didn't you? And I was like, no, no. I found out at

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:49

530 on Tuesday, and it was announced to the country at one

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:52

o'clock on Wednesday. So that's how long I knew. Like, No, I did

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:56

not. So it's amazing how quiet they can keep things when they

Jennifer Takagi: 00:30:59

want to. Yeah,

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:01

I've been on that side of it where I've had to

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:03

keep things quiet knowing that my team's that last reorg. Of

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:06

course, I knew it was coming. I couldn't talk to people about

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:10

it. I couldn't tell them where they were going to land or what

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:12

it was going to look like. Thankfully, during that reorg,

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:15

everyone was keeping their jobs, but it was a really, really big

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:20

shift. Just cultural wise, Team wise, leadership wise, even

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:25

responsibility wise. There were some big shifts, so I get it,

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:29

and there's just some things that can't be shared until it's

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:32

time. There has to, we have to give leaders time to get their

Tabatha Jones: 00:31:35

plans straight, otherwise it's going to flop anyway.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:31:38

Yeah, you you have to and when you are in a

Jennifer Takagi: 00:31:42

lower level position and you don't see that and understand

Jennifer Takagi: 00:31:46

it, you can have lots of feelings about it, but as you

Jennifer Takagi: 00:31:49

grow in your career and then you start putting the pieces

Jennifer Takagi: 00:31:54

together, it's easier to see. So if you're listening and you're

Jennifer Takagi: 00:31:58

not the one in a management role yet, I just want you to know

Jennifer Takagi: 00:32:02

that there are reasons for those things, and it's not just to be,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:32:06

you know, mean and icky to you. It there. There are a lot.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:32:09

There's a lot that has to go in place on there. So your book is

Jennifer Takagi: 00:32:13

out. You have one on one, coaching, group coaching. How do

Jennifer Takagi: 00:32:18

you how do you work with clients,

Tabatha Jones: 00:32:20

all the things. So I do have one on one

Tabatha Jones: 00:32:23

coaching, which is generally designed for job seekers,

Tabatha Jones: 00:32:27

because that's a little bit more personalized, as well as people

Tabatha Jones: 00:32:31

who are at that director VP level, some managers will come

Tabatha Jones: 00:32:35

into that one as well, who are looking for general strategy on

Tabatha Jones: 00:32:41

promotion, working through some troubleshooting a recent client

Tabatha Jones: 00:32:45

of mine. She came to me because she had lost confidence after a

Tabatha Jones: 00:32:48

mistake and was technically not demoted, but actually felt very

Tabatha Jones: 00:32:56

demoted based on the fact she went from leading teams of

Tabatha Jones: 00:32:58

people to being an individual contributor with very little

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:01

conversation, and just let me know a couple weeks ago that

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:05

she's been tapped on the shoulder, and this did happen,

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:08

and one of those promotion things that, hey, we have this

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:13

opportunity. We want you in this role. We need you to start

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:16

organizing and drawing out what your organization structure will

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:20

look like absolutely because she's showing more confidence,

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:24

she's coming up with that stronger leadership brand and

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:27

presence, and she's been very visible and doing all the right

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:30

things. So that's one on one group coaching. I have a

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:36

actually promotion ready, and three months boot camp that just

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:39

kicked off, and that is three months of complete strategy,

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:43

accountability and some fun to get you positioned for that next

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:48

promotion. And this is a really great time to get started, as

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:54

you know, three months is going to go by fast and being able to

Tabatha Jones: 00:33:58

start showing up as someone who's thinking forward and ready

Tabatha Jones: 00:34:02

for that next higher level opportunity. It's It's gold.

Tabatha Jones: 00:34:07

It's so important to start showing up as promotion ready

Tabatha Jones: 00:34:09

before the position post. So we work through that. And then I

Tabatha Jones: 00:34:15

have other group programs available. I've got some resume

Tabatha Jones: 00:34:18

training courses available. But the right now, the one on one

Tabatha Jones: 00:34:23

and the promotion ready in three months, are my main, my main

Tabatha Jones: 00:34:26

offerings. Oh

Jennifer Takagi: 00:34:27

my gosh, I love that, and I'm so excited for you

Jennifer Takagi: 00:34:30

and for your book, that's just such a fun thing to be an

Jennifer Takagi: 00:34:35

author. Like someone said, you're an author. And I was

Jennifer Takagi: 00:34:38

like, wait, I'm what? And they're like, you publish a book

Jennifer Takagi: 00:34:43

and it was a best seller on Amazon, you're an author. And I

Jennifer Takagi: 00:34:46

was like, Oh, wow. Like, somehow I hadn't put all that together.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:34:51

I did write it, and it was there it is. My

Tabatha Jones: 00:34:54

gosh, it's not amazing, and congratulations on

Tabatha Jones: 00:34:57

that too. It's just, it's so funny. I was in a room. I joined

Tabatha Jones: 00:35:00

this new networking group. They asked me to to attend and check

Tabatha Jones: 00:35:03

it out, feel it out. And it was a great event. But we went

Tabatha Jones: 00:35:07

around and introduced ourselves, and I said, I'm a career

Tabatha Jones: 00:35:10

advancement and leadership coach. And then the organizer

Tabatha Jones: 00:35:12

said, and author, oh

Jennifer Takagi: 00:35:15

yeah, I am I, I am an author. Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:35:20

Congratulations. That's cool. So for our listeners, that will be

Jennifer Takagi: 00:35:24

in the show notes. So you can click on the show notes also,

Jennifer Takagi: 00:35:28

Tabitha runs challenges, and you can click on the challenge. I'll

Jennifer Takagi: 00:35:32

have that link in the show notes too, so you can get all the

Jennifer Takagi: 00:35:35

things Tabitha this has been very enlightening and insightful

Jennifer Takagi: 00:35:38

for me. No, I don't ever want to go back to my previous job, but

Jennifer Takagi: 00:35:43

this is information I wish I had had back in the day. So as we

Jennifer Takagi: 00:35:49

wrap up, final words for the audience,

Tabatha Jones: 00:35:54

oh my gosh. My final word is, don't stay stuck.

Tabatha Jones: 00:35:59

Don't be afraid to ask for help, get those goals, get your goals

Tabatha Jones: 00:36:04

really clear, and start moving forward today, because time's

Tabatha Jones: 00:36:09

passing by whether you're taking action or not. So there's no

Tabatha Jones: 00:36:12

reason to sit there and stay stuck or be afraid. We're here.

Tabatha Jones: 00:36:15

Feel free to connect with me also on LinkedIn, and let's get

Tabatha Jones: 00:36:19

you moving.

Jennifer Takagi: 00:36:20

Oh my gosh. This has been great. Taba, thank

Jennifer Takagi: 00:36:23

you so much for your time. It's been lovely getting to know you.

Tabatha Jones: 00:36:26

Oh my gosh, thank you, Jennifer. This was so fun.

Tabatha Jones: 00:36:29

Have a great day. You

Jennifer Takagi: 00:36:30

too. I'm Jennifer Takagi with destin for

Jennifer Takagi: 00:36:33

success, and I look forward to connecting with you soon. You.