Episode 332

How One Woman's Intuition Led Her to Empathy, EQ and Evolution of Leadership | DFS 332

Get all the inside secrets and tools you need to help you develop your intuitive and leadership skills so you are on the path to the highest level of success with ease.  Dr Melissa Robinson-Winemiller is an author, speaker and trainer and shares here experience from going from a Professional Musician, French Horn, to teaching leaders empathy and how to use it.

In this episode you will learn:

  • Talk to people!
  • Self-Empathy - quit numbing ourselves out!
  • Courage - don’t be afraid of showing empathy!


Who is Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller?

Melissa took the plunge as an empathy and EQ coach and consultant after losing a career to unempathic leadership, and has never looked back. Her goal was to discover how to create better leadership with the single element most leaders in her experience dismissed: EQ through the use of empathy. How serious is she? Serious enough to bring 30+ years of leadership experience to the fore. Serious enough to pursue a second doctorate in Interdisciplinary Leadership with a dissertation focus on Empathy in Leadership. Serious enough to have MBA and Master of Data Analytics to be able to back up her arguments with data-driven proof and sound business cases. Serious enough to bolster all of this with certifications in Change Management (ACMP/Prosci), the Society for Human Resource Management (CP), and Cornell University (DEI&J). Yes, she has experience, expertise, AND education. Add to this decades of experience as a coach, and she’s created the perfect blend to counsel both current and emerging leaders in navigating these turbid waters.


Free Gift: https://eqviaempathy.com/ 

LinkedIN:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-melissa-a-robinson-winemiller-mba-prosci-cp/



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Are you ready to tiptoe into your intuition and tap into your soul’s message? Let’s talk 


Listen in as Jennifer Takagi, founder of Takagi Consulting, 5X time Amazon.Com Best Selling-Author, Certified Soul Care Coach, Certified Jack Canfield Success Principle Trainer, Certified Professional Behavioral Analyst and Facilitator of the DISC Behavioral Profiles, Certified Change Style Indicator Facilitator, Law of Attraction Practitioner, and Certified Coaching Specialist - leadership entrepreneur, speaker and trainer, shares the lessons she’s learned along the way.  Each episode is designed to give you the tools, ideas, and inspiration to lead with integrity. Humor is a big part of Jennifer’s life, so expect a few puns and possibly some sarcasm.  Tune in for a motivational guest, a story or tips to take you even closer to that success you’ve been coveting.  Please share the episodes that inspired you the most and be sure to leave a comment.  


Official Website: http://www.takagiconsulting.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennifertakagi/

Facebook: facebook.com/takagiconsulting


I look forward to connecting with you soon,  Jennifer


Jennifer Takagi

Speaker, Trainer, Author, Catalyst for Healing


PS: We would love to hear from you! For questions, coaching, or to book interviews, please email my team at Jennifer@takagiconsulting.com

Transcript
Jennifer Takagi:

Welcome to Destin for success. I'm your

Jennifer Takagi:

host, Jennifer Takagi, and today we have another amazing guest,

Jennifer Takagi:

doctor, Melissa Robinson, wine Miller, did I get the wine?

Jennifer Takagi:

Miller, right? You

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: did. It's wine like you drink, and

Jennifer Takagi:

Miller, like the beer.

Jennifer Takagi:

You just covered all the bases in 10.

Jennifer Takagi:

Welcome to the show, Melissa. I'm glad you're here. Well,

Jennifer Takagi:

thank

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Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: you so much for having me. I mean,

Jennifer Takagi:

when I read your profile and saw your leadership and the

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intuitive side of things, I was really excited to meet you. So

Jennifer Takagi:

this is fantastic. Thank you. Oh my gosh, I love it.

Jennifer Takagi:

So your title of your talk is how one's woman,

Jennifer Takagi:

okay, I can talk. Literally. I'm paid to do this. How one woman's

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intuition led her to empathy, EQ, and the evolution of

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leadership, all the things I love. Let's talk. How did you

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get on this path? What's going on? How do you show up in the

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world? You know,

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Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: it's kind of a weird path, so I'll

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give you the Cliff Notes version. But I was actually a

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professional musician for a long time. I played French horn and,

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I mean, like decades, and I had gotten a college professorship,

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you know, when got my first doctorate. Because, you know, as

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a musician, you don't necessarily have things like

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benefits, and I am hopelessly addicted to food, shelter and

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clothing. So, you know, a steady job was a good place to be. And

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I, you know, reached a point I could rise up in the leadership,

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academically and that sort of thing. So I walked in and I was

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as a professor, and there was all this great stuff. And I was

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so excited, you know, I'd done a doctor just for this. And then

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within a month of my being there, I was assaulted by one of

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my colleagues, which was just the whole thing was, was really

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bad. And from there, it devolved for about seven years. But the

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thing is, is, while I was there, I kept trying to talk to people

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within the community, to HR, to the union, to the people above

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us, to all of this, and it just became really evident that for

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whatever reason they weren't hearing what I was saying, that

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empathy, connection just was not there. And at the time, I

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couldn't necessarily figure it out. But by the end of it, I

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ended up losing that career to all of this. After seven years,

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I had to just walk away, and it was what I thought I had wanted

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to be since I was, like, six years old. So I had to be able

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to unravel who I was from what I had been doing. But in that so I

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basically spun out for about six years trying to figure it out.

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But in that time, I just couldn't quite let it go. What

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was the problem? What was the thing, what was the what was

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missing? And that's kind of where the intuition came in,

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because it's not like I could read a book and figure it out.

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So I was trying to tap into, you know, what was the issue? How

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did this happen? And what I kept coming back to was there just

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wasn't the human connection. There just wasn't the empathy. I

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kept getting kind of either. Well, what did you do to deserve

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this? Which the answer is nothing, or thank God it wasn't

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me, which still isn't helpful. So I started digging into it a

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little bit deeper, and I got an MBA, and started taking a

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completely different path. But the more I dug into it and

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started, you know, learning more about leadership, more about

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emotional intelligence in the EQ more about empathy, the more I

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was like, we're not teaching these things well. We're not

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teaching our leaders how to use empathy to tap into emotional

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intelligence and then make it actionable. It's not enough to

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have it. You have to be able to use it. So that led me into my

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second doctorate, because I wanted to be able to sit and

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research this. I wanted to be able to read it and absorb

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everything I could about it and become, you know, the girl about

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empathy, and that's kind of how I ended up here. Because if it

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weren't for intuition and trying to put this stuff together, I

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don't this is not a path I would have just picked out of thin

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air, if that makes sense? Oh, it totally

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does, because I don't know if it's all my thing.

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I have a degree in French. I worked in corporate America and

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the federal government, and now I do energy healing and high

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performance coaching. So yeah, the path is not always a clear

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or a straight one.

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Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: No, by no means. And a lot of times

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like I said, I just kind of kept going in circles because I

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couldn't it's like one leg was glued to the ground. I just kept

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going around and around until something would suddenly go, oh,

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this is what I'm doing. And then I could move forward a little

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ways, and then it would start all over again. But, well, let

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me just

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stop you for one second and just say how

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sorry I am that happened to you. Like when we go to work, it

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should be a safe place, and for it to have not been a safe

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place, and then not to have anyone listen, I was never

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physically assaulted, but I had an immense amount of emotional

Jennifer Takagi:

abuse, and I. Could find no one to listen, and that feeling of,

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I'm the only one out there. I'm on island of my own. And at some

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point, I don't know about your experience, but people quit

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wanting to talk to me because they weren't going to

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acknowledge that it was happening. And, yeah, it's a

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terrible place. And I also left after a while, yeah,

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: well, you reach a point, there's

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nothing else to do for your own sanity. Yeah, no, you can't keep

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banging your head against that wall and expect to move the

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wall. Yeah,

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yeah, but good for you for being so persistent.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Yeah, there's a lot of things in

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hindsight, I wish I'd done differently, but we do the best

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we can with the tools we have at the time, you know. And I was

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like, the little bit of family I have is in Wisconsin, and I was

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all the way on the West Coast, and so there wasn't a support

Jennifer Takagi:

system there. There wasn't, you know, the the interaction

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exactly like you were talking about, and someone to listen. So

Jennifer Takagi:

I did the best I could with what I had at the time well,

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and I I've often been asked when I do,

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like, larger trainings, and people realize that I was in the

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government for years, and they're like, man, aren't you

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really sad that you didn't walk away and start doing this

Jennifer Takagi:

sooner? And I'm like, Nope, I wouldn't have the stories I have

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like it all. It all came together. It was not a pretty

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thing to go through, but it all came together. And I really did

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have an excellent career. I just had a long bad patch in there.

Jennifer Takagi:

So as you are on your journey, and now you've become like the

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queen of empathy and EQ, which I just love. In leadership, what

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do you do? How do you help people? How do you show up and

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and share your message? Because this is so important.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Oh man, especially right now

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societally, because there's a lot of you know thought leaders

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talking about how we're we're getting more people without

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empathy, which I mean, that means narcissists, that means

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psychopaths. That means, you know, by definition, they have

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none. So it's even more important to talk about it now,

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I think. And the way I've been going about it so far is like on

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this macro level, trying to talk to big audiences, trying to be

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out and speaking, trying to, I have a book coming out, trying

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to just talk to as many people as possible. But then the micro

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level, because I do one on one coaching, I don't really think

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consulting works as well. I think it works better where I

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can work with someone one on one and we can really dig into what

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they're doing that works, what they're doing that doesn't work,

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how they can actually tap into their empathy, because

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statistically speaking, 95 to 98% of our population has

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empathy. But the question is, great, I have it. How do I use

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it? It's like having a treadmill that you keep in the corner of

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the bedroom. You know, I'm pointing at me, and I hang

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clothes on it, and my cat sleeps on it, but I don't use it. And

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then I wonder why I don't get the good output from it that I

Jennifer Takagi:

should Well, it's because I'm not using it. I have it, not

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using it. Empathy is the same way.

Jennifer Takagi:

So there is a difference between sympathy and

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empathy. Give us a little bit of definition, context, sure.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: So empathy is when I can relate to

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a person, I can feel what you're feeling the way I've heard it

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described best, is empathy is what allows me to get out of my

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bubble and into yours. And the trick is, my focus is on you. My

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focus is not on me. The difference is with sympathy.

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There's always a little element of judgment, usually a little

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element of pity, that little bit of oh well, but for the grace of

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God, go i or oh well, you brought that on yourself, but I

Jennifer Takagi:

feel sorry for you. That kind of thing, and judgment and empathy

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cannot exist in the same space. Healthcare professionals are

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actually taught not to use sympathy, because it is seen as

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pity. And if you're in the hospital having the worst day of

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your life, the last thing you want is judgment and pity from

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somebody else. So empathy, the focus is on you. Sympathy, the

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focus is on me. And if I'm wanting to actually relate to

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somebody humanistically, one on one, I want to know about you.

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What's going on with you. Why are you feeling this way? What's

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happening with this emotion? So yeah, that's the difference.

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It's actually a huge one, and people don't really realize

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there's a difference

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there. Uh, yeah, it really is. And that's

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why I appreciate you clarifying that the definition, and you

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know, those those small tweaks in what the definition is,

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creates a huge impact, like, it's a it's a whole, it's a

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whole different thing, yeah, oh my gosh. So what, what can we

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do? Like, what can I do to have more empathy or emotional

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intelligence, like, give me the dirt.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: So the very first thing is to

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actually develop self. Empathy. And I know it sounds

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counterintuitive, because if I say I understand what somebody

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else is feeling, well, I should be able to understand what I

Jennifer Takagi:

feel. Well, we tend to numb ourselves out. Yeah, see

Jennifer Takagi:

exactly. We tend to, you know, find ways to not feel what we're

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feeling because it's uncomfortable. So first you have

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to get comfortable with yourself, which means getting

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uncomfortable with the stuff that you're uncomfortable with,

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whether it's self judgment, judgments just bad news, it gets

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in the way of a lot of things, whether it's shame, feeling that

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shame for not doing this or not doing that, can be really

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devastating personally, but actually taking the time to get

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to know who you are and how you feel these emotions, because you

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can't relate to somebody else on an empathic level, if you can't

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relate to yourself, charity starts at home. So you start

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there. You figure out what this what this is for you, what does

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this mean for you? And then when you take it to the outside world

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to try and have empathy for other people, you just make sure

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that you're putting the focus on them. This is about them, and

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this isn't about emotion necessarily. That's the

Jennifer Takagi:

interesting thing. I'm feeling your emotion, but I'm not

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getting pulled into it. I'm not taking responsibility for it. I

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am not trying to fix it. I'm just there with you. Brene Brown

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says we're in the suck together, and that's exactly what it is.

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And what I tell people is that, if it's uncomfortable for you,

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which it will be, empathy causes discomfort, which then leads to

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compassion. Compassion is the act. Empathy is the feeling.

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Compassion is the act. But the thing people don't realize is

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you can have empathy or positive emotions. You know, when

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somebody's, like, really excited because they had a baby, and

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you've got that emotional contagion that's empathy too. So

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if you want a good place to practice, start with the

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positives. Start with enjoying the good things that are

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happening for other people. Start by actually really feeling

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what's going on without judgment, because that judgment

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tends to lead to things like jealousy, you know? Oh well,

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they're doing all this, but I'm not so now I'm jealous of what

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they have going on, or I'm judging them because they must

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have done this and this together, just feeling what

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someone else is feeling without judgment. That's it. Start on

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the positive side. Generally get more comfortable with the

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negative. Wow, that is powerful. I love that,

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all right? Self, self, empathy. I can talk. I never heard those

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two words put together. I love how they go together, but I

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don't think I've heard them put together before.

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Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Well, you know it is with people in

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leadership positions, right? They're usually high level,

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driven, ambitious, you know, heavy hitters, but because of

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that, they're also the ones that don't take care of themselves.

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Might end up with substance abuse, maybe have a family

Jennifer Takagi:

that's falling apart because they haven't taken the time to

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actually figure out what they're feeling and show this empathy

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for themselves. So in leadership positions, we see it played out

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a lot as these people completely ignore what they're about. So of

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course, they don't understand how to relate to their employees

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or the people that they are leading. They can't do it for

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themselves. How can they do it for anybody else?

Jennifer Takagi:

And I'm going to go out on a limb and you can

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clarify or tell me I'm flat out wrong. I think a lot of leaders

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at that point go into self protection mode. They're trying

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to protect themselves, the company, the company image, so

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they don't want to admit like that, the culture is falling

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apart around them. Yes,

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Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: I agree, and they don't want to

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admit weakness, empathy is seen as weakness for some reason, and

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it's not because it actually takes more courage and strength

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to put yourself in a situation where you may be uncomfortable

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and do it anyway. So yeah, I hear that a lot too well. I

Jennifer Takagi:

don't want to appear, you know, too weak and too fluffy and Care

Jennifer Takagi:

Bears and rainbows and puppies, and it's like, no, no, no. You

Jennifer Takagi:

need to rethink some of this. Perhaps better

Jennifer Takagi:

definitions for sure, yes, yes, yeah, oh my

Jennifer Takagi:

gosh. So this is great. So self empathy is number one. Do we

Jennifer Takagi:

have a number two?

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Just the courage not being afraid of

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it. I mean, because with the self empathy you're, you are

Jennifer Takagi:

going to have to face some nasty things. That's why people numb

Jennifer Takagi:

themselves out, whether it's crushing candies or having a

Jennifer Takagi:

vodka soda. That's, you know, they're, they're not wanting to

Jennifer Takagi:

see something. And that's for other people as well. Because if

Jennifer Takagi:

I'm feeling what you're feeling, and it's uncomfortable, I'm

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going to feel uncomfortable, and that's just the way it is. You

Jennifer Takagi:

have to have the courage to walk into that. That's why we get

Jennifer Takagi:

people that'll they're trying to alleviate their own discomfort.

Jennifer Takagi:

So they'll say something that they think will alleviate the

Jennifer Takagi:

discomfort, like, Oh well, at least you have your health. Oh

Jennifer Takagi:

well, that happened to me just like that. Let me tell you.

Jennifer Takagi:

About my situation, you know, and I don't mean to be flippant

Jennifer Takagi:

about it, but it just these are the reactions, because they want

Jennifer Takagi:

the discomfort to go away, but you can't. You're going to have

Jennifer Takagi:

to be courageous enough to sit in that discomfort and

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understand it's not about you, it's about the other person

Jennifer Takagi:

that's powerful, and what does that

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look like? I mean, I was given guidance one time on how to

Jennifer Takagi:

handle a situation, and the guidance was, well, just don't

Jennifer Takagi:

talk. And I was like, Well, have you met me? Like, I don't know

Jennifer Takagi:

how to do that. And she goes, No, seriously, if, if you can

Jennifer Takagi:

just listen and not say anything you you actually will have way

Jennifer Takagi:

more power. And I'm, I'm kind of equating this here. Somebody is

Jennifer Takagi:

sharing with me, and one way to be empathetic is just listen

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quietly.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Yes, because a lot of times they

Jennifer Takagi:

don't actually expect you to do anything. They just want to be

Jennifer Takagi:

heard, like even thinking back to, you know, the stuff that had

Jennifer Takagi:

happened to me. I knew there were people that couldn't do

Jennifer Takagi:

anything, but I just wanted someone to hear me and not feel

Jennifer Takagi:

like I was the one that was going crazy. And it's the same

Jennifer Takagi:

thing, you know that you just so the fourth agreement, you know

Jennifer Takagi:

the book, the fourth agreement? Yeah, then he says in the book

Jennifer Takagi:

that you are not repressing, you are refraining. And that's

Jennifer Takagi:

exactly what you're doing. You're not repressing all the

Jennifer Takagi:

stuff that you want to say, and, oh, my God, I need to be

Jennifer Takagi:

involved in this, but you're refraining because you're

Jennifer Takagi:

allowing that other person to be heard. You're making space for

Jennifer Takagi:

them and as human beings. I mean, I think at the basis

Jennifer Takagi:

that's really all we want is to be recognized, that yes you are

Jennifer Takagi:

here, and yes you are valued, and yes I hear you. It's hard,

Jennifer Takagi:

it's hard to do.

Jennifer Takagi:

It is hard, and it's a little bit like in the

Jennifer Takagi:

marketing world and social media. It's that no like and

Jennifer Takagi:

trust factor, yes like, okay, so I know you now, and I kind of

Jennifer Takagi:

like you because we've got similarities. But can I trust

Jennifer Takagi:

you? And that trust is going to come through that listening and

Jennifer Takagi:

paying attention and making sure they feel seen and heard,

Jennifer Takagi:

because that's what we all want. We all have a story, we all have

Jennifer Takagi:

a position, and we all want to be seen and heard. And that's a

Jennifer Takagi:

little bit lacking these days, it

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: is. And there's, there's some good

Jennifer Takagi:

books about that too, talking about that, a lot of it is

Jennifer Takagi:

attributed to social media, because you know when you're

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talking into your phone and you're you're doing all this

Jennifer Takagi:

other stuff, you are on camera and you are and that's true, but

Jennifer Takagi:

especially like the younger generations, they can't separate

Jennifer Takagi:

out the time you're in the spotlight from the time you're

Jennifer Takagi:

actually interacting with human beings. And unfortunately, this

Jennifer Takagi:

is causing a little bit of a imbalance with some of this,

Jennifer Takagi:

this empathic communication, and it's potentially a real problem.

Jennifer Takagi:

I don't know. I mean, we'll see was Time flows, I hope not.

Jennifer Takagi:

That's what I'd like to think that I'm here to do, is to make

Jennifer Takagi:

that balance a little better. But, you know, it's kind of

Jennifer Takagi:

scary.

Jennifer Takagi:

Well, you know, I Yes, and I just think

Jennifer Takagi:

everything is going to work out in the end, like whatever is

Jennifer Takagi:

supposed to work out. And for me, I was in a class years ago

Jennifer Takagi:

that it it was a evening class group, women's group thing, and

Jennifer Takagi:

one of the discussions about a book that we were all reading

Jennifer Takagi:

was Be careful about labeling people, because sometimes they

Jennifer Takagi:

need to be labeled so you can decide how You want to interact

Jennifer Takagi:

with them. But often times a label is so rigid you don't

Jennifer Takagi:

allow them to grow out of that label. Yes, and I just heard

Jennifer Takagi:

that this weekend or last weekend, one of my friends said

Jennifer Takagi:

to a young man that we had known since he was little growing up,

Jennifer Takagi:

you've grown into a really awesome man, and I'm sorry I

Jennifer Takagi:

didn't just assume that you would right, because he was kind

Jennifer Takagi:

of a little running around there and like, he's never going to

Jennifer Takagi:

grow up in a mountain. And he did, and he has and, you know,

Jennifer Takagi:

so it's kind of a little bit of giving people room to allow them

Jennifer Takagi:

to grow and change and yeah, we don't always see it happen, but

Jennifer Takagi:

if we don't have any hope for it, then we're kind of

Jennifer Takagi:

guaranteed we're not going to find that watch. Melissa, that's

Jennifer Takagi:

all,

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: well, we know that watch is there. We

Jennifer Takagi:

just gotta take the time and figure it out, right? But it's.

Jennifer Takagi:

Suddenly floats to the surface, absolutely

Jennifer Takagi:

there it comes. So just little backstory, I lost

Jennifer Takagi:

a watch seven or eight, nine years ago. I thought I'd thrown

Jennifer Takagi:

it out, but I kept having this feeling it was in my house

Jennifer Takagi:

somewhere, and I was going to find it one day. And every now

Jennifer Takagi:

and then, I just sit and focus like, where could that watch be?

Jennifer Takagi:

It never showed up. And this morning, I went to open a purse

Jennifer Takagi:

I haven't opened, obviously, in seven or eight years, and there

Jennifer Takagi:

was a little velvet jewelry bag in it with my watch that I've

Jennifer Takagi:

been looking for for years. Yeah, sometimes it's there. You

Jennifer Takagi:

just have to hold out the hope that that watches

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: absolutely and what an awesome surprise

Jennifer Takagi:

when it does, because you just never know. Yeah, you know,

Jennifer Takagi:

surely don't.

Jennifer Takagi:

So when, when we're talking about leaders, do

Jennifer Takagi:

you so you mostly do one on one is that often with like CEOs,

Jennifer Takagi:

HR, directors, people, high up in organizations, are you

Jennifer Takagi:

finding the middle to lower level managers coming to you

Jennifer Takagi:

saying, I need help, I want to do better and be better. That

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: is a fantastic question, because

Jennifer Takagi:

I'm actually finding that mid level to be a lot more receptive

Jennifer Takagi:

to what I'm saying, and I actually think they're in the

Jennifer Takagi:

position of power, because they have the opportunity to manage

Jennifer Takagi:

down and manage up. And these are the people that are like,

Jennifer Takagi:

Okay, I've seen this. I've seen this done badly. I don't know

Jennifer Takagi:

why this isn't working, but this isn't working, and I don't want

Jennifer Takagi:

to make these same mistakes. How can I fix this and learn this?

Jennifer Takagi:

Now, you know, usually when people get to these super top

Jennifer Takagi:

levels, they got there somehow, and whatever they've done has

Jennifer Takagi:

worked for them. So they're not always very quick to want to

Jennifer Takagi:

change that, necessarily, unless it's death and destruction, you

Jennifer Takagi:

know, seriously, you know. But the metal managers are a little

Jennifer Takagi:

more open to maybe we can do this better, because every day I

Jennifer Takagi:

am the one dealing with generational friction. I'm the

Jennifer Takagi:

one dealing with the great resignation. I'm the one that's

Jennifer Takagi:

seeing some of the damage that this is doing with coffee

Jennifer Takagi:

badging and minimal Mondays and everybody in a fracas about

Jennifer Takagi:

going back to the office and all these other things that I can't

Jennifer Takagi:

personally control, but I want to understand how to do better

Jennifer Takagi:

when I can control them. So yeah, that's if I actually had

Jennifer Takagi:

to put my money down. That's where it would be. Is with, with

Jennifer Takagi:

these middle managers, with

Jennifer Takagi:

the middle managers well, and I was in a

Jennifer Takagi:

management position. I was in the low level management but I

Jennifer Takagi:

had multiple opportunities where for a period of time, sometimes

Jennifer Takagi:

very short, sometimes a little bit longer. I was a little

Jennifer Takagi:

higher up in that middle management, and you're exactly

Jennifer Takagi:

right. You make a pyramid, and the top is the CEO or the

Jennifer Takagi:

director, or whatever the highest level is. And you go

Jennifer Takagi:

down a couple of levels where they're really between the

Jennifer Takagi:

people in the trenches, and the next level up, like they're

Jennifer Takagi:

they're really seeing what's happening in that organization.

Jennifer Takagi:

Yeah,

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: they are. And they're the ones that

Jennifer Takagi:

are actually in touch with with all levels up and down. They

Jennifer Takagi:

actually know the heartbeat of the organization. So yeah, I

Jennifer Takagi:

agree wholeheartedly.

Jennifer Takagi:

Yeah. So like, what can I do today? Like in my

Jennifer Takagi:

next interaction, even if it's not like a big, stressful,

Jennifer Takagi:

emotional moment, whatever. But my next interaction, how can I

Jennifer Takagi:

show up as more empathetic? I'm going to shut up and let you

Jennifer Takagi:

answer that, and then I'll throw in my two cents.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: So I think you hit on it earlier in

Jennifer Takagi:

the conversation, that the best thing you can do is listen

Jennifer Takagi:

actively. And the thing is, is we've all been inundated with

Jennifer Takagi:

well, active listening means you nod and you repeat the question

Jennifer Takagi:

back, and you open your eyes real wide, and you lean in and

Jennifer Takagi:

all and but, but don't do the things that make it look like

Jennifer Takagi:

active listening. Do active listening, and then see if those

Jennifer Takagi:

things just happen. If you're drawn into the conversation and

Jennifer Takagi:

you notice that you are leaning forward, that you are wanting to

Jennifer Takagi:

hear what they have to say, you are wanting to ask more

Jennifer Takagi:

questions about it. Now you have Empath, empathetic, see, I study

Jennifer Takagi:

this. I can't even say it empathetic communication,

Jennifer Takagi:

because it doesn't always have to be, you know, blood and guts

Jennifer Takagi:

and destruction. It doesn't always have to be in a bad way.

Jennifer Takagi:

It can be in a very good way, where someone's telling you how

Jennifer Takagi:

excited they are about how their kid did in school, or, you know,

Jennifer Takagi:

how happy they are that their cat is no longer destroying the

Jennifer Takagi:

carpet. Or just, I just had this fantastic day. Can you just

Jennifer Takagi:

listen to what I have to say. Research says we actually have

Jennifer Takagi:

seven to nine opportunities every single day to interact

Jennifer Takagi:

with empathy, with people. And you're right. It doesn't always

Jennifer Takagi:

have to be an emergency. Sometimes it's just tell me

Jennifer Takagi:

about your day and then actually listening and tapping into their

Jennifer Takagi:

bubble,

Jennifer Takagi:

absolutely and my thing that i. You know, I

Jennifer Takagi:

just have to interject, I have deemed myself a 12 minute

Jennifer Takagi:

success coach because I wrote a book 12 minutes to success reach

Jennifer Takagi:

your goals in 12 minute increments. And one of the

Jennifer Takagi:

things is, if you want a better relationship, whether it's with

Jennifer Takagi:

your kids, your friends, your spouse, your partner, whomever,

Jennifer Takagi:

your boss, your employees, if you can just shut everything

Jennifer Takagi:

down for 12 minutes and focus solely on them, yes, it's going

Jennifer Takagi:

to create a whole much more interaction. I had a boss for

Jennifer Takagi:

years adored him, and he got to work a little earlier than I

Jennifer Takagi:

did, and then I stayed a little bit later, so we had, like, full

Jennifer Takagi:

coverage from before we opened until shortly after we closed.

Jennifer Takagi:

And I would come in in the morning, he'd already be there,

Jennifer Takagi:

and I would log on to my computer, walk into his office

Jennifer Takagi:

and sit down and say, Hey, what's going on? And Had

Jennifer Takagi:

something happened? Right? Had he gotten an email overnight, or

Jennifer Takagi:

I could tell him what happened at the end of the day after he

Jennifer Takagi:

left, and we had this nice little connection. And I never

Jennifer Takagi:

really had a situation that was quite that structured. I had it

Jennifer Takagi:

with other bosses along the lines, you know, over the years,

Jennifer Takagi:

but that was just like a really nice little touch point. And

Jennifer Takagi:

then he could say, I have a meeting. I'll be gone, or I

Jennifer Takagi:

could say I'm leaving for this, or, you know, we're both going

Jennifer Takagi:

to be here all day, whatever it was, whatever that day happened

Jennifer Takagi:

to be bringing, but we weren't on the phone, we weren't

Jennifer Takagi:

checking emails. We were eye to eye, having a conversation,

Jennifer Takagi:

which just meant the world to me.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Yes, because you could feel seen and

Jennifer Takagi:

heard, and yes, you're a human being, and I acknowledge you and

Jennifer Takagi:

and that's really that you're absolutely right. That's all it

Jennifer Takagi:

takes. And it doesn't matter which relationship it is,

Jennifer Takagi:

because we do get so sucked into these numbing activities, which

Jennifer Takagi:

is exactly what happens, whether you're crushing candies or, you

Jennifer Takagi:

know, overworking out, or or whatever it is, we all do it. I

Jennifer Takagi:

you know, no one is exempt, but to to actually take that time

Jennifer Takagi:

and focus and yes, you know, I see you, I hear you, and I

Jennifer Takagi:

acknowledge you right where you're at, that's huge. I

Jennifer Takagi:

just heard someone recently say, and I'm

Jennifer Takagi:

not even sure who it was, but they said they had an employee

Jennifer Takagi:

that was a little bit, I'm going to say, needy with air quotes,

Jennifer Takagi:

and needed her time, and it just became a time suck for her,

Jennifer Takagi:

because it just was a lot. And so finally, she just booked time

Jennifer Takagi:

with him or her, I don't remember now the gender, it

Jennifer Takagi:

doesn't matter, but booked time, and we're going to talk on this

Jennifer Takagi:

time. So they'd make their list of things they wanted to share

Jennifer Takagi:

and go in and chat about. And obviously, if anything was life

Jennifer Takagi:

or death or super urgent, then that took precedence. But they

Jennifer Takagi:

really just wanted to be seen and heard, and so once she

Jennifer Takagi:

recognized that, that just completely elevated her

Jennifer Takagi:

relationship with this employee, because they felt seen and

Jennifer Takagi:

heard, and they they knew she was going to be there at that

Jennifer Takagi:

time, and they could have the conversation

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Well, and you make a fantastic point,

Jennifer Takagi:

because I'll have leaders say, like, well, I can't have just

Jennifer Takagi:

everybody in my office, just everybody unloading and like,

Jennifer Takagi:

No, you can't. You're in a leadership position. But having

Jennifer Takagi:

empathy doesn't mean you don't set boundaries. This is the

Jennifer Takagi:

actionable part. It's strategic, it's precise. It's not a free

Jennifer Takagi:

for all

Jennifer Takagi:

well, and I, I had a boss one time, and she

Jennifer Takagi:

would call me, we were in different states, and she would

Jennifer Takagi:

call, and I had caller ID. I knew it was her phone number. I

Jennifer Takagi:

knew it was her calling. And I'd pick up the phone and say, hey

Jennifer Takagi:

you what's going on, and should say, I need you to go to a

Jennifer Takagi:

conference room and call me right back and just hang up, and

Jennifer Takagi:

I would just be overridden with guilt. Did I miss turning in a

Jennifer Takagi:

report? Did I have numbers wrong on something? Did I miss an

Jennifer Takagi:

important meeting? Did one of my employees send something through

Jennifer Takagi:

that they shouldn't have or that was wrong, like I My mind went

Jennifer Takagi:

all over the place. This one day, I went in the conference

Jennifer Takagi:

room, because I had a three sided cubicle, so I was very

Jennifer Takagi:

exposed to you couldn't have a private conversation. So I

Jennifer Takagi:

walked in the conference room, and I called her back, and I was

Jennifer Takagi:

like, Hi, what's going on? And she said, I just got back from a

Jennifer Takagi:

meeting, and they're going to be adjusting all of my level

Jennifer Takagi:

management's performance requirements, and we have to

Jennifer Takagi:

make our employees happy. I thought I'd let you know that,

Jennifer Takagi:

how am I going to make people happy? And the first thing I

Jennifer Takagi:

wanted to say is you could say. Say, Jennifer, I want to talk

Jennifer Takagi:

about your travel budget. Would you please go to the conference

Jennifer Takagi:

room and call me back? That would make me so freaking happy

Jennifer Takagi:

that, yes, I couldn't say that, right? Because that was not what

Jennifer Takagi:

she wanted. And and I said something very profound, like,

Jennifer Takagi:

Oh, I thought everybody was responsible for their own

Jennifer Takagi:

happiness. No, no, the boss can make you freaking miserable. So

Jennifer Takagi:

you know, I wasn't responsible for 100% of my own happiness,

Jennifer Takagi:

but those are the kind of things that you need to be able to have

Jennifer Takagi:

a conversation about. But I did not ever feel that I was in that

Jennifer Takagi:

position to be able to say, if you could just drop a little

Jennifer Takagi:

breadcrumb about what we're going to talk about, that would

Jennifer Takagi:

have, like, ease my world, like, yes,

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: and it seems simple, right? Don't

Jennifer Takagi:

leave me hanging, because in the absence of communication, my

Jennifer Takagi:

head's going to make stuff up. That's why we have so many

Jennifer Takagi:

conspiracy theories. In the absence of good communication

Jennifer Takagi:

and truth, you've got a gap to fill with something. And that's

Jennifer Takagi:

exactly what was happening. And it seems so simple, because if

Jennifer Takagi:

she would have considered herself in that position, nobody

Jennifer Takagi:

wants to be left hanging like that, but she had never stepped

Jennifer Takagi:

into your shoes well. And

Jennifer Takagi:

yes, I totally agree, and I've heard this a lot

Jennifer Takagi:

in my life, and I hate to even admit it, but it's the truth

Jennifer Takagi:

well, that I got through it. That's how I was treated. You

Jennifer Takagi:

should get through it too. But why should I have to? Yeah, why?

Jennifer Takagi:

Like, why should I have to? That's always like, my, you

Jennifer Takagi:

know, background noise, whether I actually say it out loud or

Jennifer Takagi:

not. Yes, you had to walk uphill to and from school in the snow

Jennifer Takagi:

with dad. I get it. Yes, I don't have to.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Well, shouldn't we want to do better

Jennifer Takagi:

for others than we had? Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Takagi:

And that's, I think that's where the Gulf is.

Jennifer Takagi:

I think there's a very big goal. If I had it hard, if your heart

Jennifer Takagi:

isn't as bad as what I perceive mine to have been, then I have

Jennifer Takagi:

no empathy for you. Suck it up buttercup.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Well, that's hazing, and they outlaw

Jennifer Takagi:

that at university, so we got outlawed in the workforce too.

Jennifer Takagi:

Oh my gosh, I love that. That's hazy. I'm

Jennifer Takagi:

going to write that down. Oh my gosh, I love that. So we've got

Jennifer Takagi:

several, you know, really juicy tidbits that we can hang on to

Jennifer Takagi:

here and actually make changes in our world and how we interact

Jennifer Takagi:

with other people as we wrap up our time together, what are your

Jennifer Takagi:

final words for the audience?

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: You know, it's that being courageous

Jennifer Takagi:

enough to interact with people, having the strength to know that

Jennifer Takagi:

you don't have to get sucked in to the emotion, which means

Jennifer Takagi:

overall, always keeping a cool head and a warm heart, always

Jennifer Takagi:

a Cool head and warm heart.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Yep, that

Jennifer Takagi:

is beautiful. Thank you, Melissa,

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: you bet this is fantastic. I'm so

Jennifer Takagi:

enjoy talking to you.

Jennifer Takagi:

Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: Oh, just, I've so enjoyed being

Jennifer Takagi:

here. Go ahead.

Jennifer Takagi:

You like one of the most important things, yeah,

Jennifer Takagi:

coming out, drop the link in the show to be able to get your

Jennifer Takagi:

book. What's your book title? And how do we get a hold? Get

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: a hold of you? Yeah. Sam was so

Jennifer Takagi:

drawn into the conversation, I, like, totally forgot all of that

Jennifer Takagi:

stuff. That's yeah, that would be helpful, wouldn't it, yeah.

Jennifer Takagi:

So I do have a book. It's called The Empathic leader. How EQ, via

Jennifer Takagi:

empathy transforms leadership for better, innovation,

Jennifer Takagi:

productivity and profit, because I've actually done the data

Jennifer Takagi:

analysis and some case studies to prove that, yeah, if you

Jennifer Takagi:

actually interact with empathy, productivity, profit, innovation

Jennifer Takagi:

go up. So what better reason do you need?

Jennifer Takagi:

Yeah, that's excellent. So how do we find

Jennifer Takagi:

you? Well,

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: I actually my website is EQ via V.

Jennifer Takagi:

I A empathy because that's what I teach, is EQ through the lens

Jennifer Takagi:

of empathy, but that's way too long to put into a website, so

Jennifer Takagi:

it's just EQ via empathy. You can find me there. I do have a

Jennifer Takagi:

free gift there for people who would like to drop their email,

Jennifer Takagi:

and you can always catch me on Instagram or LinkedIn as well.

Jennifer Takagi:

Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. Thank

Jennifer Takagi:

Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: you. This was fantastic. I've enjoyed

Jennifer Takagi:

this immensely. Thank you for having me. Oh,

Jennifer Takagi:

I'm so glad I'm Jennifer Takagi with destin for

Jennifer Takagi:

success, and I look forward to connecting with you soon. See.

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About the Podcast

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Destined For Success
Destined For Success With Jennifer Takagi

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About your host

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Jennifer Takagi


I am Jennifer Takagi, an Executive Leadership + Communication Coach who teaches leaders how to play well at work so they can drive better performance from people they lead, increase profitability and create a purposeful workplace where people want to come and play—productively.